2729 lines
41 KiB
Plaintext
2729 lines
41 KiB
Plaintext
WEBVTT
|
|
|
|
1
|
|
00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.360
|
|
For how long were you a
|
|
moderator?
|
|
|
|
2
|
|
00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:09.280
|
|
I started
|
|
moderating the database in 2012.
|
|
|
|
3
|
|
00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.240
|
|
I think it was launched in
|
|
September 2012, but we
|
|
|
|
4
|
|
00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:16.840
|
|
were involved in the project
|
|
maybe March-April.
|
|
|
|
5
|
|
00:00:17.040 --> 00:00:23.040
|
|
So, at the end of the
|
|
development, they contacted
|
|
us.
|
|
|
|
6
|
|
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.320
|
|
'They' are the
|
|
government - the Flemish government - who
|
|
|
|
7
|
|
00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:31.520
|
|
built this database and
|
|
website.
|
|
|
|
8
|
|
00:00:31.720 --> 00:00:34.400
|
|
And they attracted us because
|
|
we had knowledge
|
|
|
|
9
|
|
00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.680
|
|
of working with participatory
|
|
|
|
10
|
|
00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.640
|
|
ways and methodologies.
|
|
|
|
11
|
|
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:45.640
|
|
And I worked on it just until
|
|
|
|
12
|
|
00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:47.640
|
|
April 2019.
|
|
|
|
13
|
|
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:49.640
|
|
When was the transition to the
|
|
new database?
|
|
|
|
14
|
|
00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:52.640
|
|
The transition happened in 2018
|
|
|
|
15
|
|
00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:58.840
|
|
from the beginning of the year
|
|
and it was launched in the
|
|
beginning of December.
|
|
|
|
16
|
|
00:01:03.080 --> 00:01:04.560
|
|
What role did the Flemish
|
|
government play in the development of the
|
|
database?
|
|
|
|
17
|
|
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:04.240
|
|
The first and the second?
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
18
|
|
00:01:04.440 --> 00:01:05.920
|
|
Yeah. Well
|
|
|
|
19
|
|
00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.200
|
|
they are the owners of the
|
|
database
|
|
|
|
20
|
|
00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:13.360
|
|
and you can say it's a
|
|
reflection of their policy.
|
|
|
|
21
|
|
00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:16.000
|
|
So, their policy on intangible
|
|
cultural heritage
|
|
|
|
22
|
|
00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:19.040
|
|
is totally incorporated in
|
|
this tool.
|
|
|
|
23
|
|
00:01:19.240 --> 00:01:22.920
|
|
You can see it as a mirror of
|
|
their policies.
|
|
|
|
24
|
|
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:25.560
|
|
There was a new policy since
|
|
the end
|
|
|
|
25
|
|
00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.080
|
|
of 2010, there was a new
|
|
vision on how
|
|
|
|
26
|
|
00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:31.400
|
|
to work with intangible
|
|
cultural heritage in
|
|
Flanders. And
|
|
|
|
27
|
|
00:01:31.600 --> 00:01:34.320
|
|
2012 was a year that they
|
|
started really to
|
|
|
|
28
|
|
00:01:34.520 --> 00:01:38.160
|
|
develop the policy and put it
|
|
into practice.
|
|
|
|
29
|
|
00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:41.280
|
|
And that professional
|
|
organizations
|
|
|
|
30
|
|
00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:44.840
|
|
in Flanders were
|
|
|
|
31
|
|
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.600
|
|
beginning to understand what
|
|
intangible
|
|
|
|
32
|
|
00:01:47.800 --> 00:01:49.880
|
|
heritage is and what's it
|
|
about.
|
|
|
|
33
|
|
00:01:50.080 --> 00:01:52.400
|
|
So the government developed a
|
|
tool to
|
|
|
|
34
|
|
00:01:52.600 --> 00:01:55.040
|
|
sustain the work on intangible
|
|
|
|
35
|
|
00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:56.040
|
|
cultural heritage.
|
|
|
|
36
|
|
00:01:56.240 --> 00:02:00.000
|
|
For the volunteers - the
|
|
|
|
37
|
|
00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:04.760
|
|
tradition
|
|
bearers, the ICH intangible cultural heritage bearers - , but
|
|
|
|
38
|
|
00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:06.760
|
|
also for the professionals.
|
|
|
|
39
|
|
00:02:06.960 --> 00:02:09.360
|
|
Were you also involved in the
|
|
process of developing the
|
|
|
|
40
|
|
00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:11.960
|
|
database? How did you
|
|
collaborate on that?
|
|
|
|
41
|
|
00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:14.520
|
|
In the beginning it was mainly
|
|
the government itself
|
|
|
|
42
|
|
00:02:14.720 --> 00:02:15.840
|
|
who developed it.
|
|
|
|
43
|
|
00:02:16.040 --> 00:02:17.240
|
|
With FARO.
|
|
|
|
44
|
|
00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:19.680
|
|
They were mainly involved.
|
|
|
|
45
|
|
00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:22.320
|
|
I think also PACKED was
|
|
involved.
|
|
|
|
46
|
|
00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.760
|
|
But PACKED was involved later
|
|
on in the process, together
|
|
|
|
47
|
|
00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:27.680
|
|
with us because of
|
|
|
|
48
|
|
00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:30.200
|
|
that's an organization who has
|
|
expertise on
|
|
|
|
49
|
|
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:35.520
|
|
digital heritage and we had
|
|
expertise on
|
|
participative methods.
|
|
|
|
50
|
|
00:02:35.720 --> 00:02:38.280
|
|
So that's why they attracted
|
|
us both, but
|
|
|
|
51
|
|
00:02:38.480 --> 00:02:40.000
|
|
much later in the process.
|
|
|
|
52
|
|
00:02:40.200 --> 00:02:43.120
|
|
So there was already
|
|
a cooperation building the
|
|
database.
|
|
|
|
53
|
|
00:02:43.320 --> 00:02:46.040
|
|
They already had decided what
|
|
they wanted, who
|
|
|
|
54
|
|
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:47.600
|
|
was going to build it.
|
|
|
|
55
|
|
00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.920
|
|
How did you find the first
|
|
database?
|
|
|
|
56
|
|
00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.000
|
|
How did I find it?
|
|
Interesting...
|
|
|
|
57
|
|
00:02:55.200 --> 00:02:56.960
|
|
Challenging...
|
|
|
|
58
|
|
00:02:57.160 --> 00:02:59.200
|
|
I was the moderator of the
|
|
platform.
|
|
|
|
59
|
|
00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.760
|
|
Then you have already two terms
|
|
and what I'm
|
|
|
|
60
|
|
00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.920
|
|
saying now has a very broad
|
|
meaning.
|
|
|
|
61
|
|
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.240
|
|
They said it was a platform on
|
|
the digital cultural heritage,
|
|
|
|
62
|
|
00:03:08.440 --> 00:03:10.320
|
|
but
|
|
with the word platform they
|
|
meant it's
|
|
|
|
63
|
|
00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.040
|
|
not only a digital tool, but
|
|
|
|
64
|
|
00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:15.600
|
|
it's also a network of
|
|
|
|
65
|
|
00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:18.240
|
|
professionals who are working
|
|
on intangible
|
|
|
|
66
|
|
00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:20.920
|
|
cultural heritage and also
|
|
the volunteers
|
|
or the tradition bearers.
|
|
|
|
67
|
|
00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:23.800
|
|
So
|
|
|
|
68
|
|
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:25.960
|
|
, following up on that.
|
|
|
|
69
|
|
00:03:26.160 --> 00:03:28.600
|
|
My role as a moderator was also
|
|
|
|
70
|
|
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.280
|
|
not only - let's say -
|
|
the web master or
|
|
|
|
71
|
|
00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:32.880
|
|
the content manager.
|
|
|
|
72
|
|
00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.400
|
|
But I was also a central
|
|
|
|
73
|
|
00:03:35.600 --> 00:03:38.000
|
|
person to this network.
|
|
|
|
74
|
|
00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:40.760
|
|
And as an organization we tried
|
|
to develop
|
|
|
|
75
|
|
00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.920
|
|
this network the first
|
|
years: 2012
|
|
, 2013, 2014. That was a big part of my job
|
|
|
|
76
|
|
00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.120
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
77
|
|
00:03:47.320 --> 00:03:49.280
|
|
To get this network going.
|
|
|
|
78
|
|
00:03:49.480 --> 00:03:52.720
|
|
So I also played a role in that
|
|
|
|
79
|
|
00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:55.320
|
|
side and I was the center of
|
|
|
|
80
|
|
00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.840
|
|
this big network of
|
|
professionals,
|
|
|
|
81
|
|
00:03:58.040 --> 00:04:00.400
|
|
tradition bearers, the
|
|
government.
|
|
|
|
82
|
|
00:04:00.600 --> 00:04:03.400
|
|
And yeah, I was in charge of
|
|
the
|
|
|
|
83
|
|
00:04:03.600 --> 00:04:06.720
|
|
flow of information and
|
|
guidance
|
|
|
|
84
|
|
00:04:06.920 --> 00:04:09.400
|
|
on every aspect and
|
|
|
|
85
|
|
00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:10.920
|
|
in every way.
|
|
|
|
86
|
|
00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.680
|
|
Next to content management
|
|
and webmaster.
|
|
|
|
87
|
|
00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:17.920
|
|
The content was created by
|
|
professionals,
|
|
|
|
88
|
|
00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:20.920
|
|
by tradition bearers, but not
|
|
by me.
|
|
|
|
89
|
|
00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.480
|
|
I was only an extra gate
|
|
|
|
90
|
|
00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.320
|
|
who guided them to ask them
|
|
extra
|
|
|
|
91
|
|
00:04:26.520 --> 00:04:29.640
|
|
questions if some information
|
|
was missing
|
|
|
|
92
|
|
00:04:29.840 --> 00:04:32.200
|
|
and we did minimal editing on
|
|
|
|
93
|
|
00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:36.320
|
|
the texts before it
|
|
was put online.
|
|
|
|
94
|
|
00:04:36.520 --> 00:04:38.680
|
|
So my interactions were very
|
|
minimal.
|
|
|
|
95
|
|
00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:41.200
|
|
And that's why the term
|
|
moderator also came up because
|
|
|
|
96
|
|
00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:45.440
|
|
that was very clear from the
|
|
start, that this was my role.
|
|
|
|
97
|
|
00:04:45.640 --> 00:04:48.000
|
|
That it was not to intervene
|
|
too much in the
|
|
|
|
98
|
|
00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:53.080
|
|
content but just manage it and
|
|
moderate it.
|
|
|
|
99
|
|
00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:55.800
|
|
Maybe you could describe how
|
|
the process
|
|
|
|
100
|
|
00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.520
|
|
of adding a new element to the
|
|
|
|
101
|
|
00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:02.160
|
|
database goes?
|
|
|
|
102
|
|
00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:05.160
|
|
There were different ways
|
|
|
|
103
|
|
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.200
|
|
to get in contact with people.
|
|
|
|
104
|
|
00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:09.760
|
|
So, it starts with people who
|
|
|
|
105
|
|
00:05:09.960 --> 00:05:12.520
|
|
wanted to add their - you say
|
|
element
|
|
|
|
106
|
|
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.160
|
|
I say
|
|
intangible cultural heritage -
|
|
to the database.
|
|
|
|
107
|
|
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.600
|
|
Some people just heard
|
|
about the database.
|
|
|
|
108
|
|
00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.320
|
|
Some people just heard about
|
|
|
|
109
|
|
00:05:22.520 --> 00:05:26.120
|
|
the official inventory for
|
|
intangible cultural heritage
|
|
in Flanders.
|
|
|
|
110
|
|
00:05:26.320 --> 00:05:28.760
|
|
That was usually
|
|
|
|
111
|
|
00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:31.520
|
|
the most common that people
|
|
heard about the inventory
|
|
|
|
112
|
|
00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.960
|
|
and they eventually came up
|
|
with the question: how can we
|
|
|
|
113
|
|
00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:37.480
|
|
get our intangible cultural
|
|
heritage on
|
|
|
|
114
|
|
00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:41.200
|
|
this list, as they see it on
|
|
the inventory.
|
|
|
|
115
|
|
00:05:41.400 --> 00:05:43.720
|
|
So that was usually the most
|
|
common question and
|
|
|
|
116
|
|
00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.360
|
|
how they reached us.
|
|
|
|
117
|
|
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.880
|
|
Sometimes it was just us
|
|
|
|
118
|
|
00:05:49.080 --> 00:05:53.000
|
|
or other professional
|
|
organisations,
|
|
|
|
119
|
|
00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:56.000
|
|
who contacted people and on the
|
|
other hand, we also organised
|
|
some
|
|
|
|
120
|
|
00:05:56.200 --> 00:05:58.720
|
|
workshops and stuff like that
|
|
; promotional
|
|
|
|
121
|
|
00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:02.200
|
|
actions to promote the site
|
|
and the database.
|
|
|
|
122
|
|
00:06:02.400 --> 00:06:05.360
|
|
So that once people decide yes
|
|
|
|
123
|
|
00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:08.000
|
|
we want to add our intangible
|
|
|
|
124
|
|
00:06:08.200 --> 00:06:10.280
|
|
cultural heritage, they could
|
|
ask for that.
|
|
|
|
125
|
|
00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.640
|
|
That was how the process was in
|
|
|
|
126
|
|
00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:16.000
|
|
the first database.
|
|
|
|
127
|
|
00:06:16.200 --> 00:06:19.480
|
|
There it was that they could
|
|
ask for a login, a
|
|
|
|
128
|
|
00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:21.920
|
|
personal one, I would provide
|
|
it to them.
|
|
|
|
129
|
|
00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:24.760
|
|
Then they get access to the
|
|
actual database.
|
|
|
|
130
|
|
00:06:24.960 --> 00:06:27.080
|
|
They have a manual.
|
|
|
|
131
|
|
00:06:27.280 --> 00:06:29.800
|
|
On how to work with a database
|
|
with
|
|
|
|
132
|
|
00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.200
|
|
explanations at the different
|
|
fields.
|
|
|
|
133
|
|
00:06:32.400 --> 00:06:34.960
|
|
What is what is really asked
|
|
here
|
|
|
|
134
|
|
00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.440
|
|
and then they could just go
|
|
ahead.
|
|
|
|
135
|
|
00:06:37.640 --> 00:06:40.360
|
|
But what we also did and what
|
|
we strongly advised
|
|
|
|
136
|
|
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.240
|
|
was to have a conversation
|
|
with one of our colleague
|
|
|
|
137
|
|
00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:45.760
|
|
organizations that
|
|
|
|
138
|
|
00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:47.720
|
|
was linked to their intangible
|
|
culture.
|
|
|
|
139
|
|
00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:53.240
|
|
To make it more clear, let's
|
|
say, someone
|
|
|
|
140
|
|
00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:55.840
|
|
who would want to add Carnival
|
|
or something
|
|
|
|
141
|
|
00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.440
|
|
like that, then we would guide
|
|
them through an organization
|
|
|
|
142
|
|
00:06:59.640 --> 00:07:02.080
|
|
who worked on social traditions
|
|
|
|
143
|
|
00:07:02.280 --> 00:07:04.600
|
|
and that organization would
|
|
have a conversation with
|
|
|
|
144
|
|
00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:06.800
|
|
them on what is intangible
|
|
heritage.
|
|
|
|
145
|
|
00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.320
|
|
What is a policy on
|
|
intangible heritage, so that
|
|
they would
|
|
|
|
146
|
|
00:07:09.520 --> 00:07:11.920
|
|
fully grasp the idea of what
|
|
intangible
|
|
|
|
147
|
|
00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:14.680
|
|
heritage really is and what it
|
|
meant
|
|
|
|
148
|
|
00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:19.080
|
|
and where the convention
|
|
stands for
|
|
where the policy stands for,
|
|
|
|
149
|
|
00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:21.760
|
|
what it meant for them in
|
|
practice and that it's really
|
|
all
|
|
|
|
150
|
|
00:07:21.960 --> 00:07:24.520
|
|
about working together and
|
|
providing a future
|
|
|
|
151
|
|
00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.560
|
|
for your intangible cultural
|
|
heritage and keep it
|
|
|
|
152
|
|
00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:28.960
|
|
active and alive.
|
|
|
|
153
|
|
00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.800
|
|
And it's not about the history
|
|
|
|
154
|
|
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.360
|
|
of heritage but it's more
|
|
about the
|
|
|
|
155
|
|
00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:36.880
|
|
future. And once they
|
|
|
|
156
|
|
00:07:37.080 --> 00:07:40.080
|
|
got that idea, then this
|
|
organization
|
|
|
|
157
|
|
00:07:40.280 --> 00:07:42.960
|
|
also guided them not wrote
|
|
|
|
158
|
|
00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.120
|
|
the text, but they guided them
|
|
into the process of
|
|
|
|
159
|
|
00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:48.640
|
|
"Okay how are you now gonna
|
|
describe it? How
|
|
|
|
160
|
|
00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:51.800
|
|
would other people describe it
|
|
? Who is involved
|
|
|
|
161
|
|
00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:54.400
|
|
? What actions do you take to
|
|
create
|
|
|
|
162
|
|
00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:57.720
|
|
a future for your intangible
|
|
cultural heritage?".
|
|
|
|
163
|
|
00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:01.040
|
|
Actually that was a large
|
|
process most of the times.
|
|
|
|
164
|
|
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.760
|
|
Some people just described
|
|
their heritage
|
|
|
|
165
|
|
00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:07.480
|
|
and described their community,
|
|
|
|
166
|
|
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:10.720
|
|
but it was also necessary
|
|
|
|
167
|
|
00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:16.920
|
|
, otherwise you
|
|
couldn't be visible
|
|
|
|
168
|
|
00:08:17.340 --> 00:08:18.640
|
|
in the front of the database, on the website.
|
|
|
|
169
|
|
00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:21.200
|
|
So most of the people really
|
|
did this full process.
|
|
|
|
170
|
|
00:08:21.400 --> 00:08:24.400
|
|
Not everyone. In
|
|
|
|
171
|
|
00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.920
|
|
the end it mostly led to
|
|
|
|
172
|
|
00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:31.680
|
|
filing requests for also
|
|
|
|
173
|
|
00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:35.440
|
|
being mentioned on the
|
|
inventory of intangible
|
|
culture.
|
|
|
|
174
|
|
00:08:35.640 --> 00:08:38.520
|
|
Because of this whole process
|
|
that they had to
|
|
|
|
175
|
|
00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.040
|
|
undertake that
|
|
|
|
176
|
|
00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.240
|
|
was usually the outcome.
|
|
|
|
177
|
|
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.040
|
|
So this was not my role.
|
|
|
|
178
|
|
00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:48.720
|
|
My role was more like OK get
|
|
|
|
179
|
|
00:08:48.920 --> 00:08:51.400
|
|
people involved and explain
|
|
|
|
180
|
|
00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.960
|
|
what the process is about and
|
|
refer them to other
|
|
|
|
181
|
|
00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:56.840
|
|
organizations who then
|
|
|
|
182
|
|
00:08:57.040 --> 00:08:58.960
|
|
did this whole process
|
|
with the people
|
|
|
|
183
|
|
00:08:59.160 --> 00:09:01.960
|
|
and then once they had written
|
|
the texts and have
|
|
|
|
184
|
|
00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:04.480
|
|
come to a consensus about the
|
|
texts that
|
|
|
|
185
|
|
00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:07.440
|
|
they wrote, then they got back
|
|
to the
|
|
|
|
186
|
|
00:09:07.640 --> 00:09:11.960
|
|
database and started really
|
|
filing in the content.
|
|
|
|
187
|
|
00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:15.240
|
|
And then I would just make some
|
|
little
|
|
|
|
188
|
|
00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.640
|
|
editing stuff or
|
|
|
|
189
|
|
00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.200
|
|
say "Oh maybe it's better to
|
|
use that picture", but
|
|
|
|
190
|
|
00:09:22.400 --> 00:09:26.560
|
|
my involvement was nothing
|
|
more than that anymore at that
|
|
time.
|
|
|
|
191
|
|
00:09:26.760 --> 00:09:29.280
|
|
I'm also wondering about the
|
|
part where
|
|
|
|
192
|
|
00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:33.280
|
|
the different
|
|
parties that were involved had
|
|
to reach a consensus.
|
|
|
|
193
|
|
00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:33.840
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
194
|
|
00:09:34.040 --> 00:09:36.560
|
|
Are there any traces
|
|
|
|
195
|
|
00:09:36.760 --> 00:09:40.040
|
|
in the inventory about the
|
|
process -
|
|
|
|
196
|
|
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.200
|
|
of how they reached a consensus
|
|
?
|
|
Mhm. Or
|
|
|
|
197
|
|
00:09:42.400 --> 00:09:44.560
|
|
of the moments where they
|
|
didn't reach a
|
|
consensus, for example.
|
|
|
|
198
|
|
00:09:44.760 --> 00:09:48.680
|
|
Not
|
|
|
|
199
|
|
00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:51.640
|
|
in the database itself,
|
|
because it was
|
|
|
|
200
|
|
00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.680
|
|
a process between people.
|
|
|
|
201
|
|
00:09:53.880 --> 00:09:56.960
|
|
It wasn't a digital process at
|
|
that time.
|
|
|
|
202
|
|
00:09:57.160 --> 00:10:00.560
|
|
So, the texts that you see
|
|
|
|
203
|
|
00:10:00.760 --> 00:10:03.880
|
|
on the website that are texts
|
|
that
|
|
|
|
204
|
|
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.520
|
|
they reached a consensus
|
|
about,
|
|
|
|
205
|
|
00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.160
|
|
that's the case certainly now
|
|
at this
|
|
|
|
206
|
|
00:10:09.160 --> 00:10:10.320
|
|
point with a new database.
|
|
|
|
207
|
|
00:10:10.520 --> 00:10:13.080
|
|
If someone isn't in consensus
|
|
with how
|
|
|
|
208
|
|
00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:15.720
|
|
it is mentioned, they are free
|
|
and they can upload
|
|
|
|
209
|
|
00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:18.960
|
|
another version and it stands
|
|
next to each other.
|
|
|
|
210
|
|
00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:20.720
|
|
That wasn't the case in the
|
|
previous.
|
|
|
|
211
|
|
00:10:20.920 --> 00:10:23.880
|
|
But now the website is open to
|
|
that.
|
|
|
|
212
|
|
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.040
|
|
Has anyone actually made use of
|
|
this feature
|
|
|
|
213
|
|
00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:29.160
|
|
, at least until April 2019?
|
|
|
|
214
|
|
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:30.680
|
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
215
|
|
00:10:30.880 --> 00:10:35.000
|
|
So far I don't think so.
|
|
|
|
216
|
|
00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.720
|
|
The professionals really played
|
|
|
|
217
|
|
00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:40.560
|
|
the role of mediator the
|
|
|
|
218
|
|
00:10:40.760 --> 00:10:42.840
|
|
past 6-7 years.
|
|
|
|
219
|
|
00:10:43.040 --> 00:10:45.640
|
|
That was the idea also
|
|
|
|
220
|
|
00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:49.560
|
|
of the policy to bring people
|
|
|
|
221
|
|
00:10:49.760 --> 00:10:52.600
|
|
together on intangible
|
|
cultural heritage
|
|
|
|
222
|
|
00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:54.960
|
|
and it all came back from the
|
|
idea they can learn from each
|
|
|
|
223
|
|
00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:57.640
|
|
other and it strengthens the
|
|
|
|
224
|
|
00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.440
|
|
intangible cultural heritage
|
|
if people work together
|
|
|
|
225
|
|
00:11:00.640 --> 00:11:03.200
|
|
and if they share their
|
|
experience and I think for a
|
|
big part
|
|
|
|
226
|
|
00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:05.040
|
|
that's that's really true.
|
|
|
|
227
|
|
00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:07.680
|
|
But you still have different
|
|
voices
|
|
|
|
228
|
|
00:11:07.880 --> 00:11:10.240
|
|
and different meanings and
|
|
when 0 I can
|
|
|
|
229
|
|
00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:12.400
|
|
understand your question when
|
|
it comes to texts.
|
|
|
|
230
|
|
00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.200
|
|
People can have another vision
|
|
on
|
|
|
|
231
|
|
00:11:15.400 --> 00:11:18.680
|
|
how something is described or
|
|
if
|
|
|
|
232
|
|
00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:21.480
|
|
they want to feel connected to
|
|
it, but
|
|
|
|
233
|
|
00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:25.240
|
|
in the past they got to the
|
|
point of a consensus.
|
|
|
|
234
|
|
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.920
|
|
One of the examples that you
|
|
|
|
235
|
|
00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:30.520
|
|
wrote in your email was about
|
|
the Giants,
|
|
|
|
236
|
|
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.040
|
|
but that - actually I am
|
|
actually not the
|
|
|
|
237
|
|
00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:36.520
|
|
person who who can speak
|
|
widely about it,
|
|
|
|
238
|
|
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.080
|
|
because it wasn't one of our
|
|
projects - and the
|
|
organization
|
|
|
|
239
|
|
00:11:39.280 --> 00:11:42.280
|
|
who has done that this
|
|
was LECA, now they're part of
|
|
Histories.
|
|
|
|
240
|
|
00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.080
|
|
They were one of the first and
|
|
actually they had a process
|
|
|
|
241
|
|
00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:47.840
|
|
for 7 or 8, 9 years because
|
|
|
|
242
|
|
00:11:48.040 --> 00:11:50.920
|
|
in France you have a lot of
|
|
giants and
|
|
|
|
243
|
|
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.320
|
|
a lot of small communities
|
|
|
|
244
|
|
00:11:52.520 --> 00:11:55.800
|
|
but actually they're all part
|
|
of a bigger community
|
|
|
|
245
|
|
00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.440
|
|
of people who feel
|
|
|
|
246
|
|
00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:00.960
|
|
strongly about the Giants and
|
|
keep them alive and
|
|
|
|
247
|
|
00:12:01.160 --> 00:12:04.760
|
|
then they said "well we have
|
|
to get those people together".
|
|
|
|
248
|
|
00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.360
|
|
And step by step, year by
|
|
year,
|
|
|
|
249
|
|
00:12:07.560 --> 00:12:10.040
|
|
they started to work with
|
|
these people and
|
|
|
|
250
|
|
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.040
|
|
attract more and more people.
|
|
|
|
251
|
|
00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:14.640
|
|
And support them and actually
|
|
in
|
|
|
|
252
|
|
00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:17.440
|
|
the end they created a lot of
|
|
cells
|
|
|
|
253
|
|
00:12:17.640 --> 00:12:21.520
|
|
in different regions
|
|
with people
|
|
|
|
254
|
|
00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:25.000
|
|
who were more or less
|
|
involved.
|
|
|
|
255
|
|
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.560
|
|
They organized workshops in
|
|
different regions and so
|
|
|
|
256
|
|
00:12:27.760 --> 00:12:30.480
|
|
a total movement actually
|
|
arose
|
|
|
|
257
|
|
00:12:30.680 --> 00:12:33.000
|
|
and it came to an association
|
|
for the
|
|
|
|
258
|
|
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.120
|
|
whole of Flanders on this
|
|
Giant
|
|
|
|
259
|
|
00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:37.440
|
|
culture actually.
|
|
|
|
260
|
|
00:12:37.640 --> 00:12:40.080
|
|
And then they applied for a
|
|
place on
|
|
|
|
261
|
|
00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:42.800
|
|
the inventory as a whole,
|
|
|
|
262
|
|
00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:45.480
|
|
but I have to say before
|
|
|
|
263
|
|
00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:48.840
|
|
that smaller communities
|
|
already applied
|
|
|
|
264
|
|
00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:50.200
|
|
for an individual
|
|
|
|
265
|
|
00:12:50.400 --> 00:12:53.080
|
|
culture in the city, but
|
|
|
|
266
|
|
00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:56.040
|
|
it felt really strong that now
|
|
they can speak of
|
|
|
|
267
|
|
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.000
|
|
a Giant culture in Flanders.
|
|
|
|
268
|
|
00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:02.160
|
|
Then they tried to
|
|
|
|
269
|
|
00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.680
|
|
put the differences
|
|
|
|
270
|
|
00:13:04.880 --> 00:13:07.600
|
|
into the text on this culture
|
|
but of course
|
|
|
|
271
|
|
00:13:07.800 --> 00:13:10.200
|
|
you have smaller aspects of
|
|
|
|
272
|
|
00:13:10.400 --> 00:13:12.720
|
|
culture in a smaller region
|
|
that are different.
|
|
|
|
273
|
|
00:13:12.920 --> 00:13:16.440
|
|
But yes you can find some main
|
|
|
|
274
|
|
00:13:16.640 --> 00:13:20.320
|
|
lines and teams that
|
|
|
|
275
|
|
00:13:20.520 --> 00:13:21.720
|
|
apply to them all.
|
|
|
|
276
|
|
00:13:21.920 --> 00:13:24.320
|
|
They did a good job, but
|
|
|
|
277
|
|
00:13:24.520 --> 00:13:27.160
|
|
people are now certainly also
|
|
|
|
278
|
|
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:29.840
|
|
able to fill in the form
|
|
|
|
279
|
|
00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:31.720
|
|
just on their own culture.
|
|
|
|
280
|
|
00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:34.960
|
|
That's what I'm trying to say
|
|
so we took
|
|
|
|
281
|
|
00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:37.480
|
|
that idea of "there has to be
|
|
a consensus and
|
|
|
|
282
|
|
00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:40.320
|
|
everyone has to work together
|
|
", we
|
|
|
|
283
|
|
00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:43.920
|
|
took that down a notch in
|
|
|
|
284
|
|
00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:46.840
|
|
the second database now.
|
|
|
|
285
|
|
00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:49.560
|
|
So now it's more everyone, even
|
|
a small community
|
|
|
|
286
|
|
00:13:49.760 --> 00:13:52.120
|
|
, even a person can fill in a
|
|
form
|
|
|
|
287
|
|
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.040
|
|
so that the giant of a small
|
|
community
|
|
|
|
288
|
|
00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:56.760
|
|
is also visible on the
|
|
website.
|
|
|
|
289
|
|
00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.160
|
|
So the two ways
|
|
|
|
290
|
|
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:04.640
|
|
lie ahead now next to each other in
|
|
the new database.
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
291
|
|
00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:08.480
|
|
How was this transition made
|
|
? Was the
|
|
|
|
292
|
|
00:14:08.680 --> 00:14:11.240
|
|
focus on a multiplicity
|
|
|
|
293
|
|
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.760
|
|
of views coming from
|
|
|
|
294
|
|
00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.360
|
|
the organization Werk
|
|
plaats Immaterieel Eerfgoed or
|
|
|
|
295
|
|
00:14:17.560 --> 00:14:19.160
|
|
was it coming from the
|
|
Flemish government?
|
|
|
|
296
|
|
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:22.000
|
|
I think it was
|
|
|
|
297
|
|
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:23.680
|
|
from both ways.
|
|
|
|
298
|
|
00:14:23.880 --> 00:14:27.200
|
|
And there is also another organ
|
|
|
|
299
|
|
00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:29.920
|
|
in this whole process and
|
|
that's a commission
|
|
|
|
300
|
|
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.640
|
|
of experts and
|
|
|
|
301
|
|
00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:35.680
|
|
they advise the minister on
|
|
|
|
302
|
|
00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:38.320
|
|
which elements should be
|
|
|
|
303
|
|
00:14:38.520 --> 00:14:40.480
|
|
on the inventory.
|
|
|
|
304
|
|
00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:43.680
|
|
So they really went over all
|
|
these appliances
|
|
|
|
305
|
|
00:14:43.880 --> 00:14:46.840
|
|
and they also had made some
|
|
|
|
306
|
|
00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.720
|
|
evaluations on the topic of
|
|
the
|
|
|
|
307
|
|
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:52.360
|
|
past years and made some
|
|
suggestions.
|
|
|
|
308
|
|
00:14:52.560 --> 00:14:55.240
|
|
So when the years went by
|
|
|
|
309
|
|
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.440
|
|
faces headed into the same
|
|
direction
|
|
|
|
310
|
|
00:14:58.640 --> 00:15:01.040
|
|
because we all noticed that
|
|
"OK.
|
|
|
|
311
|
|
00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.120
|
|
This way of working demands a
|
|
lot of the
|
|
people, ir demands a lot of the
|
|
|
|
312
|
|
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.360
|
|
professionals who are guiding
|
|
them.
|
|
|
|
313
|
|
00:15:07.560 --> 00:15:10.960
|
|
Certainly
|
|
|
|
314
|
|
00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:13.400
|
|
it has has pros, many.
|
|
|
|
315
|
|
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.120
|
|
We have done terrific work on
|
|
that,
|
|
|
|
316
|
|
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.840
|
|
but in terms of
|
|
|
|
317
|
|
00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:21.480
|
|
displaying on a website on
|
|
|
|
318
|
|
00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:24.400
|
|
inventorying ICH in Flanders
|
|
and displaying
|
|
|
|
319
|
|
00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.560
|
|
the diversity of ICH in
|
|
Flanders...
|
|
|
|
320
|
|
00:15:28.760 --> 00:15:31.160
|
|
These two processes
|
|
|
|
321
|
|
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:34.720
|
|
can come together. They're
|
|
just
|
|
|
|
322
|
|
00:15:34.920 --> 00:15:38.080
|
|
counterproductive actually,
|
|
because it
|
|
|
|
323
|
|
00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:41.160
|
|
took such a long time to get
|
|
to a text,
|
|
|
|
324
|
|
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.680
|
|
so they can display it and
|
|
that's not the
|
|
|
|
325
|
|
00:15:43.880 --> 00:15:46.600
|
|
match we're trying to make
|
|
|
|
326
|
|
00:15:46.800 --> 00:15:49.280
|
|
an inventory of ICHin Flanders
|
|
that's
|
|
|
|
327
|
|
00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.400
|
|
really diverse also.
|
|
|
|
328
|
|
00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:55.080
|
|
Was this one of the main
|
|
reasons to move to a new
|
|
database?
|
|
|
|
329
|
|
00:15:55.280 --> 00:15:57.160
|
|
Yes it was. Because
|
|
|
|
330
|
|
00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.680
|
|
the old database and the
|
|
content that
|
|
|
|
331
|
|
00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:02.240
|
|
was in the database didn't
|
|
show the
|
|
|
|
332
|
|
00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:06.320
|
|
diversity of ICH in Flanders
|
|
and had problems with that.
|
|
|
|
333
|
|
00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:08.840
|
|
So we made an analysis of what
|
|
is going on
|
|
|
|
334
|
|
00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:11.920
|
|
here and there were a lot of
|
|
technical issues,
|
|
|
|
335
|
|
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.800
|
|
barriers that slow down that
|
|
process
|
|
|
|
336
|
|
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.320
|
|
next to the process on how we
|
|
work with
|
|
|
|
337
|
|
00:16:17.520 --> 00:16:21.840
|
|
the tradition bearers and
|
|
the policy and what they
|
|
|
|
338
|
|
00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:24.760
|
|
demanded of
|
|
|
|
339
|
|
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.400
|
|
work from these volunteers and
|
|
that took a long
|
|
|
|
340
|
|
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.920
|
|
time for them to develop
|
|
|
|
341
|
|
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:36.120
|
|
and this is almost
|
|
counterproductive to the
|
|
inventorying ICH in Flanders.
|
|
|
|
342
|
|
00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:39.400
|
|
And then you create an image of
|
|
ICH in Flanders
|
|
|
|
343
|
|
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:44.000
|
|
only with the ICH
|
|
|
|
344
|
|
00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:48.160
|
|
of people who already know the
|
|
way to the professional
|
|
organizations.
|
|
|
|
345
|
|
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.920
|
|
And then again when you look at
|
|
look at it
|
|
|
|
346
|
|
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.800
|
|
from the perspective of the
|
|
website only typical
|
|
|
|
347
|
|
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.360
|
|
ICH is presented there.
|
|
|
|
348
|
|
00:16:55.560 --> 00:16:57.960
|
|
So it's a conflict. A lot of
|
|
steps
|
|
|
|
349
|
|
00:16:58.160 --> 00:17:00.880
|
|
had to be taken and you had
|
|
a policy,
|
|
|
|
350
|
|
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.760
|
|
you had the process on how to
|
|
|
|
351
|
|
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:06.360
|
|
apply for the inventory, that
|
|
are
|
|
|
|
352
|
|
00:17:06.560 --> 00:17:08.600
|
|
all barriers,
|
|
|
|
353
|
|
00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:11.880
|
|
but you also had the digital
|
|
|
|
354
|
|
00:17:12.080 --> 00:17:14.640
|
|
barriers that were definitely
|
|
|
|
355
|
|
00:17:14.840 --> 00:17:17.880
|
|
a big part of it because it
|
|
was too difficult to work
|
|
with.
|
|
|
|
356
|
|
00:17:18.080 --> 00:17:20.880
|
|
So
|
|
|
|
357
|
|
00:17:21.080 --> 00:17:23.120
|
|
in one year we worked on the
|
|
three.
|
|
|
|
358
|
|
00:17:23.320 --> 00:17:25.720
|
|
Did you find that being a
|
|
moderator
|
|
|
|
359
|
|
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.080
|
|
for the NGO the
|
|
Werkplaats Immaterieel Erfgoed
|
|
|
|
360
|
|
00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:31.720
|
|
was different from being a
|
|
moderator for elements
|
|
|
|
361
|
|
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:36.040
|
|
that went on the Flemish
|
|
inventory?
|
|
|
|
362
|
|
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.920
|
|
It's true that my role was
|
|
different than
|
|
|
|
363
|
|
00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:42.200
|
|
other colleagues of mine in
|
|
the NGO.
|
|
|
|
364
|
|
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.120
|
|
And that sometimes it did
|
|
|
|
365
|
|
00:17:45.320 --> 00:17:48.480
|
|
in our day to day work it
|
|
|
|
366
|
|
00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.480
|
|
did came up that I was more
|
|
linked to the government.
|
|
|
|
367
|
|
00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:53.920
|
|
Or that's how I felt it.
|
|
|
|
368
|
|
00:17:54.120 --> 00:17:56.640
|
|
Sometimes I have to say "but no
|
|
Ellen, no, that's not true".
|
|
|
|
369
|
|
00:17:56.840 --> 00:17:59.160
|
|
But I had the feeling that I
|
|
was moderating a
|
|
|
|
370
|
|
00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:01.800
|
|
tool of them and
|
|
|
|
371
|
|
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.120
|
|
that is something that I was
|
|
always conscious about.
|
|
|
|
372
|
|
00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:08.360
|
|
It's a very direct line.
|
|
|
|
373
|
|
00:18:08.560 --> 00:18:11.840
|
|
In the work we have done as an
|
|
organization
|
|
|
|
374
|
|
00:18:12.040 --> 00:18:15.480
|
|
, we could more develop our own
|
|
|
|
375
|
|
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:20.160
|
|
lines and vision on the
|
|
website.
|
|
We could.
|
|
|
|
376
|
|
00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:23.160
|
|
But it's more for working and
|
|
|
|
377
|
|
00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:25.960
|
|
finding and way in. Okay how
|
|
far
|
|
|
|
378
|
|
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.360
|
|
can we go as an
|
|
organization whose moderating
|
|
this tool?
|
|
|
|
379
|
|
00:18:29.560 --> 00:18:32.200
|
|
And when do we have to
|
|
|
|
380
|
|
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.760
|
|
ask feedback or approval
|
|
|
|
381
|
|
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:39.080
|
|
from the government if we want
|
|
to do it like this or like
|
|
that.
|
|
|
|
382
|
|
00:18:39.280 --> 00:18:41.520
|
|
And then I was a person who was
|
|
responsible for that.
|
|
|
|
383
|
|
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.600
|
|
So they felt freer
|
|
in their work
|
|
|
|
384
|
|
00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:48.960
|
|
than I could ever be. Me
|
|
|
|
385
|
|
00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:50.840
|
|
personally and as a moderator.
|
|
|
|
386
|
|
00:18:51.040 --> 00:18:53.480
|
|
So yeah it was reflected in my
|
|
|
|
387
|
|
00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.200
|
|
my work and that's why I was
|
|
really happy
|
|
|
|
388
|
|
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.800
|
|
that at the end I could guide
|
|
|
|
389
|
|
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.960
|
|
this project as a project
|
|
management to do
|
|
|
|
390
|
|
00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.000
|
|
the follow up tool in 2018
|
|
|
|
391
|
|
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.840
|
|
because at that time we could
|
|
as an organization
|
|
|
|
392
|
|
00:19:09.040 --> 00:19:11.480
|
|
and me also my
|
|
|
|
393
|
|
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.320
|
|
personal expertise in
|
|
moderating this website, it
|
|
|
|
394
|
|
00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:16.400
|
|
all could come together.
|
|
|
|
395
|
|
00:19:16.600 --> 00:19:20.000
|
|
And at that time we also built
|
|
up an expertise
|
|
|
|
396
|
|
00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.720
|
|
or voice as an organization
|
|
and
|
|
|
|
397
|
|
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.120
|
|
we're stronger than in 2012.
|
|
|
|
398
|
|
00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:28.800
|
|
It was nice to work in
|
|
|
|
399
|
|
00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.400
|
|
this way with the government
|
|
so that we could
|
|
|
|
400
|
|
00:19:31.600 --> 00:19:35.000
|
|
develop a tool that everybody
|
|
was happy about.
|
|
|
|
401
|
|
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.200
|
|
Yes this is the way forward.
|
|
|
|
402
|
|
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.760
|
|
This is what we need to do to
|
|
|
|
403
|
|
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.000
|
|
turn this around.
|
|
|
|
404
|
|
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.240
|
|
So at the end we were more... I
|
|
was more..
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
405
|
|
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:46.160
|
|
Yeah I could say..
|
|
|
|
406
|
|
00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:48.200
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
407
|
|
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:51.000
|
|
More colleagues also with the
|
|
government not in a way
|
|
|
|
408
|
|
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.920
|
|
like what my colleagues on the
|
|
Werkplaats,
|
|
|
|
409
|
|
00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:56.520
|
|
but we could speak
|
|
|
|
410
|
|
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.200
|
|
more freely to each other and
|
|
everyone has
|
|
|
|
411
|
|
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.360
|
|
his position and his expertise
|
|
and is valued for that.
|
|
|
|
412
|
|
00:20:02.560 --> 00:20:06.040
|
|
So that was another way of
|
|
working than 6, 7 years before
|
|
that.
|
|
|
|
413
|
|
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:11.240
|
|
How
|
|
|
|
414
|
|
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.120
|
|
do you negotiate the
|
|
differences between
|
|
|
|
415
|
|
00:20:15.320 --> 00:20:18.120
|
|
the official
|
|
Flemish inventory and
|
|
|
|
416
|
|
00:20:18.320 --> 00:20:22.800
|
|
the organization's inventory.
|
|
|
|
417
|
|
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:29.000
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
418
|
|
00:20:29.280 --> 00:20:32.600
|
|
That's one of the changes that
|
|
was made in
|
|
|
|
419
|
|
00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:36.920
|
|
developing the sector, because
|
|
|
|
420
|
|
00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:39.480
|
|
like I said before in the
|
|
first tool the restrictions
|
|
|
|
421
|
|
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.120
|
|
were rather high.
|
|
|
|
422
|
|
00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:44.320
|
|
So there had to be a
|
|
description.
|
|
|
|
423
|
|
00:20:44.520 --> 00:20:47.280
|
|
Of the Intangible Cultural
|
|
Heritage and then it's
|
|
|
|
424
|
|
00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:51.960
|
|
matched with a definition of
|
|
intangible cultural heritage.
|
|
|
|
425
|
|
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.320
|
|
The parameters that are that
|
|
you can find in the
|
|
definition.
|
|
|
|
426
|
|
00:20:56.520 --> 00:20:59.000
|
|
One important one for example
|
|
|
|
427
|
|
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.120
|
|
is: is it still alive
|
|
|
|
428
|
|
00:21:03.320 --> 00:21:06.000
|
|
and active? Are
|
|
|
|
429
|
|
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.840
|
|
people still doing it? Is
|
|
|
|
430
|
|
00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:11.480
|
|
there a future for it? So
|
|
that's one aspect.
|
|
|
|
431
|
|
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.040
|
|
When people enter their
|
|
information that was one of
|
|
the things
|
|
|
|
432
|
|
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.880
|
|
that I would really look into
|
|
|
|
433
|
|
00:21:17.080 --> 00:21:19.400
|
|
and ask extra questions
|
|
whether
|
|
|
|
434
|
|
00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:22.560
|
|
or not it was for the
|
|
inventory or not that was
|
|
|
|
435
|
|
00:21:22.760 --> 00:21:25.680
|
|
for example a very big issue.
|
|
|
|
436
|
|
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.680
|
|
But also as certainly on the
|
|
first
|
|
|
|
437
|
|
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.160
|
|
database people had to
|
|
describe their community.
|
|
|
|
438
|
|
00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:35.280
|
|
And
|
|
|
|
439
|
|
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:37.880
|
|
the government was really
|
|
strict about it: from they
|
|
have to
|
|
|
|
440
|
|
00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:41.440
|
|
describe their community
|
|
, otherwise they cannot be
|
|
visible in the front.
|
|
|
|
441
|
|
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.160
|
|
So they can be in the back-end,
|
|
they can work on their
|
|
|
|
442
|
|
00:21:44.360 --> 00:21:47.000
|
|
content, but it can only be
|
|
|
|
443
|
|
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.680
|
|
made visible once all this
|
|
information is included.
|
|
|
|
444
|
|
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.640
|
|
One extra was that they had to
|
|
show
|
|
|
|
445
|
|
00:21:54.840 --> 00:21:57.200
|
|
that they already had made
|
|
some
|
|
|
|
446
|
|
00:21:57.400 --> 00:21:59.280
|
|
safeguarding measures.
|
|
|
|
447
|
|
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.560
|
|
So that was three very big
|
|
descriptions, we think.
|
|
|
|
448
|
|
00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:06.120
|
|
Because what also comes up is
|
|
that you have
|
|
|
|
449
|
|
00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:08.240
|
|
to have prior and informed
|
|
consent.
|
|
|
|
450
|
|
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:10.240
|
|
I don't know if you're familiar
|
|
with that.
|
|
|
|
451
|
|
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:14.960
|
|
That's something that is strict
|
|
in the convention.
|
|
|
|
452
|
|
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:17.480
|
|
You have to have prior and
|
|
informed consent to call
|
|
|
|
453
|
|
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.080
|
|
something intangible cultural
|
|
heritage.
|
|
|
|
454
|
|
00:22:20.280 --> 00:22:22.680
|
|
So the government felt really
|
|
strongly
|
|
|
|
455
|
|
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.720
|
|
about and that was a really
|
|
strong restriction
|
|
|
|
456
|
|
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.200
|
|
for me to moderate
|
|
this content
|
|
|
|
457
|
|
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.240
|
|
and that would lead up to
|
|
asking extra
|
|
|
|
458
|
|
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.120
|
|
questions to the people.
|
|
|
|
459
|
|
00:22:34.320 --> 00:22:36.720
|
|
So for 6, 7 years, me
|
|
|
|
460
|
|
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.520
|
|
as a moderator,
|
|
|
|
461
|
|
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.720
|
|
there was almost nothing that
|
|
I could moderate
|
|
|
|
462
|
|
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.240
|
|
and make visible in the front
|
|
|
|
463
|
|
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:46.560
|
|
other than the inventory
|
|
|
|
464
|
|
00:22:46.760 --> 00:22:50.240
|
|
for cultural heritage because
|
|
the standards are so high.
|
|
|
|
465
|
|
00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:52.320
|
|
So there was almost no
|
|
difference.
|
|
|
|
466
|
|
00:22:52.520 --> 00:22:54.960
|
|
And that's something that we
|
|
made notable to
|
|
|
|
467
|
|
00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:59.400
|
|
the government and now the
|
|
restrictions are much lesser.
|
|
|
|
468
|
|
00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:03.160
|
|
So we pulled it apart.
|
|
|
|
469
|
|
00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:05.880
|
|
So now people who want to make
|
|
their intangible
|
|
|
|
470
|
|
00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:07.880
|
|
cultural heritage visible they
|
|
can.
|
|
|
|
471
|
|
00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:09.480
|
|
They only have a form.
|
|
|
|
472
|
|
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.720
|
|
And five six questions that
|
|
they had to fill in.
|
|
|
|
473
|
|
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.360
|
|
And then they click a bottom
|
|
where they
|
|
|
|
474
|
|
00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.000
|
|
say yes I have read the
|
|
definition
|
|
|
|
475
|
|
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.720
|
|
of intangible cultural
|
|
heritage and this is
|
|
intangible
|
|
|
|
476
|
|
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.000
|
|
cultural heritage to me.
|
|
|
|
477
|
|
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.160
|
|
And that's
|
|
|
|
478
|
|
00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:29.120
|
|
also all that the convention
|
|
asks for.
|
|
|
|
479
|
|
00:23:29.320 --> 00:23:31.640
|
|
But the government interpreted
|
|
the
|
|
|
|
480
|
|
00:23:31.840 --> 00:23:36.160
|
|
convention at a very high
|
|
level.
|
|
|
|
481
|
|
00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:37.600
|
|
Difficult level.
|
|
|
|
482
|
|
00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:40.480
|
|
So we tried to narrow it down
|
|
|
|
483
|
|
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:46.680
|
|
and split it out.
|
|
|
|
484
|
|
00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:49.520
|
|
The moderator now, he can just
|
|
look
|
|
|
|
485
|
|
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.120
|
|
into the texts that come up on
|
|
|
|
486
|
|
00:23:52.320 --> 00:23:54.720
|
|
this little forum and
|
|
|
|
487
|
|
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:58.080
|
|
if people are interested in
|
|
|
|
488
|
|
00:23:58.280 --> 00:24:00.720
|
|
applying for the inventory
|
|
they can
|
|
|
|
489
|
|
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.520
|
|
start to fill in another form
|
|
with
|
|
|
|
490
|
|
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.680
|
|
more questions but also easier
|
|
questions
|
|
|
|
491
|
|
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.240
|
|
than ever before to fill in a
|
|
|
|
492
|
|
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:11.840
|
|
form to apply for the
|
|
inventory and they
|
|
|
|
493
|
|
00:24:12.040 --> 00:24:14.520
|
|
can also
|
|
|
|
494
|
|
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.480
|
|
get in contact with other
|
|
organizations if they wanted.
|
|
|
|
495
|
|
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.720
|
|
But also that is not necessary
|
|
anymore. And
|
|
|
|
496
|
|
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:20.600
|
|
previous times it was
|
|
necessary.
|
|
|
|
497
|
|
00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:24.720
|
|
When
|
|
|
|
498
|
|
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:27.440
|
|
you made the transition from
|
|
the previous database to the
|
|
new
|
|
|
|
499
|
|
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:28.080
|
|
database,
|
|
what happened with these elements?
|
|
|
|
500
|
|
00:24:28.280 --> 00:24:30.680
|
|
Very important in this
|
|
|
|
501
|
|
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.680
|
|
process was it was not only
|
|
a new database
|
|
|
|
502
|
|
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.440
|
|
, but it was also a new way of
|
|
reporting.
|
|
|
|
503
|
|
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.120
|
|
I don't know if you are
|
|
familiar with that concept
|
|
? That every
|
|
|
|
504
|
|
00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:43.000
|
|
year elements who are on the
|
|
inventory
|
|
|
|
505
|
|
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:46.640
|
|
, they had to make a report on
|
|
how they
|
|
|
|
506
|
|
00:24:46.840 --> 00:24:50.120
|
|
develop safeguarding measures
|
|
that year and how it has
|
|
evolved.
|
|
|
|
507
|
|
00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:52.960
|
|
And also they were asked to
|
|
|
|
508
|
|
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.800
|
|
look into the description of
|
|
the heritage
|
|
|
|
509
|
|
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.680
|
|
and make changes if something
|
|
|
|
510
|
|
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:03.040
|
|
changed, or has come up, or
|
|
add something or.
|
|
|
|
511
|
|
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.000
|
|
But not many have done that
|
|
in the past years.
|
|
|
|
512
|
|
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.280
|
|
So we thought well there's a
|
|
new database now.
|
|
|
|
513
|
|
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:15.120
|
|
But it's also a different way
|
|
of working.
|
|
|
|
514
|
|
00:25:15.320 --> 00:25:17.840
|
|
So we kept them informed.
|
|
|
|
515
|
|
00:25:18.040 --> 00:25:19.880
|
|
We thought that was very
|
|
important.
|
|
|
|
516
|
|
00:25:20.080 --> 00:25:22.560
|
|
On the new process, but also
|
|
what we
|
|
|
|
517
|
|
00:25:22.760 --> 00:25:25.080
|
|
were aiming for with this new
|
|
website and
|
|
|
|
518
|
|
00:25:25.280 --> 00:25:28.080
|
|
this new database and actually
|
|
it was the government
|
|
|
|
519
|
|
00:25:28.280 --> 00:25:29.640
|
|
who led that process.
|
|
|
|
520
|
|
00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:32.160
|
|
I made suggestions on how to do
|
|
that, but they were in
|
|
|
|
521
|
|
00:25:32.360 --> 00:25:34.240
|
|
contact with the communities.
|
|
|
|
522
|
|
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.080
|
|
So we were restricted
|
|
|
|
523
|
|
00:25:37.280 --> 00:25:40.520
|
|
the number of
|
|
characters that a text could
|
|
have
|
|
|
|
524
|
|
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.600
|
|
and a lot of texts were for
|
|
example I'm
|
|
|
|
525
|
|
00:25:43.800 --> 00:25:47.480
|
|
giving you a very straight
|
|
clear example.
|
|
|
|
526
|
|
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:51.080
|
|
The texts were very long. So we
|
|
narrowed it down
|
|
|
|
527
|
|
00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:53.920
|
|
and we did edit
|
|
|
|
528
|
|
00:25:54.120 --> 00:25:57.360
|
|
the texts to make it more web
|
|
friendly
|
|
|
|
529
|
|
00:25:57.560 --> 00:25:59.640
|
|
and then we gave it back to
|
|
the communities,
|
|
|
|
530
|
|
00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:02.160
|
|
we informed that we were going
|
|
to do that and then we gave it
|
|
back to the
|
|
|
|
531
|
|
00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:04.680
|
|
communities and we didn't
|
|
|
|
532
|
|
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.600
|
|
enter any new texts before we
|
|
got their consent.
|
|
|
|
533
|
|
00:26:08.800 --> 00:26:11.360
|
|
Looking at the experts from
|
|
their new database
|
|
|
|
534
|
|
00:26:11.560 --> 00:26:14.440
|
|
one column that stands out is
|
|
that of weight,
|
|
|
|
535
|
|
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.040
|
|
referring of course to the
|
|
order in which the elements
|
|
are
|
|
|
|
536
|
|
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:18.960
|
|
displayed on the website.
|
|
|
|
537
|
|
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:22.440
|
|
And most of the elements seem
|
|
to have a different weight
|
|
from another.
|
|
|
|
538
|
|
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.920
|
|
Could you mention how that
|
|
selection is made?
|
|
|
|
539
|
|
00:26:26.120 --> 00:26:28.560
|
|
The grand idea about the new
|
|
website was all
|
|
|
|
540
|
|
00:26:28.760 --> 00:26:31.640
|
|
diversity, diversity,
|
|
diversity. And we
|
|
|
|
541
|
|
00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:35.120
|
|
wanted to have an impact on
|
|
the image of intangible
|
|
cultural
|
|
|
|
542
|
|
00:26:35.320 --> 00:26:38.160
|
|
heritage and what it all can be
|
|
and is in Flanders
|
|
|
|
543
|
|
00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:41.160
|
|
and not only just typical
|
|
Carnival
|
|
|
|
544
|
|
00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:44.120
|
|
and Processions
|
|
|
|
545
|
|
00:26:44.320 --> 00:26:46.520
|
|
but that is much more than
|
|
that.
|
|
|
|
546
|
|
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.680
|
|
So we wanted to have also
|
|
|
|
547
|
|
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.240
|
|
a sort of algorithm, because
|
|
|
|
548
|
|
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.840
|
|
there's only a few elements
|
|
that can be shown
|
|
|
|
549
|
|
00:26:55.040 --> 00:26:57.720
|
|
on the front page and also
|
|
|
|
550
|
|
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.960
|
|
when you enter the part of the
|
|
elements.
|
|
|
|
551
|
|
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:03.920
|
|
Also there, there is every day
|
|
|
|
552
|
|
00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:07.160
|
|
, every element has a different
|
|
place
|
|
|
|
553
|
|
00:27:07.360 --> 00:27:08.440
|
|
in how it's presented.
|
|
|
|
554
|
|
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.160
|
|
It can be on the first page
|
|
it can be the second.
|
|
|
|
555
|
|
00:27:11.360 --> 00:27:16.200
|
|
We wanted it also to change to
|
|
have algorithms in the
|
|
database.
|
|
|
|
556
|
|
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:18.800
|
|
And that's all because we
|
|
wanted to show
|
|
|
|
557
|
|
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.960
|
|
this diversity of elements,
|
|
|
|
558
|
|
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.720
|
|
but we would have done it in a
|
|
full
|
|
|
|
559
|
|
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:26.800
|
|
automatic way.
|
|
|
|
560
|
|
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:31.040
|
|
But the budget wasn't
|
|
sufficient enough.
|
|
|
|
561
|
|
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:33.560
|
|
So the developers came back to
|
|
us
|
|
|
|
562
|
|
00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:37.080
|
|
and said "no we can't do it
|
|
that way but we have another
|
|
idea.
|
|
|
|
563
|
|
00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:37.840
|
|
We switch it.
|
|
|
|
564
|
|
00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:40.360
|
|
And with this bar you can give
|
|
|
|
565
|
|
00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:43.160
|
|
it a percentage and then it
|
|
has a lower or higher
|
|
|
|
566
|
|
00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:46.000
|
|
chance to come on the front
|
|
page
|
|
|
|
567
|
|
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.280
|
|
or to come on the first or the
|
|
second or the third".
|
|
|
|
568
|
|
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.760
|
|
And when we speak of diversity
|
|
it's on different
|
|
|
|
569
|
|
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:54.600
|
|
levels: it's the level of the
|
|
different domains
|
|
|
|
570
|
|
00:27:54.800 --> 00:27:56.560
|
|
of cultural heritage.
|
|
|
|
571
|
|
00:27:56.760 --> 00:27:59.400
|
|
It's whether it's heritage
|
|
|
|
572
|
|
00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:02.800
|
|
that takes place in cities or
|
|
|
|
573
|
|
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.560
|
|
in the mainland or that's
|
|
|
|
574
|
|
00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:09.720
|
|
mainly done by elders or by
|
|
youngsters.
|
|
|
|
575
|
|
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.240
|
|
So these differences, we
|
|
|
|
576
|
|
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:14.400
|
|
wanted to reflect it all.
|
|
|
|
577
|
|
00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:17.960
|
|
And with that in our back of
|
|
our head we would manually
|
|
|
|
578
|
|
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.520
|
|
give it a different percentage
|
|
every month,
|
|
|
|
579
|
|
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:22.000
|
|
every week.
|
|
|